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seinneann_ceoil
Dec. 31st, 2010 10:39 am (UTC)
I should correct my statement about oppressive society. There is obviously oppression, but not the kind of overt oppression in other societies or previous times. Its certainly a struggle to live an alternative life style, but not impossible. It's certainly easier now than it was even 10 years ago. I'm not counting utah, or the bible belt or my fathers house. :P

I struggle with finding what I want, but I don't blame social oppression for it. Sure its there and it acts as a hand of fate, but I can fight it. I'm not sure what good it even does me if I had something to blame it on.


Are you white?

Do you not think that people who are not white may have a very different experience of oppression in our society than you do?
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seinneann_ceoil
Dec. 31st, 2010 11:06 am (UTC)
Unfortunately, there are other people for whom their race isn't an whole different ballgame, even as it intersects with poly sexuality. These things come into play for many people even when SPECIFICALLY limited to poly sexuality.

But I think the main point to this is that when you say that there isn't that much oppression (in this case, you're talking about people's freedom to live different sexual alternative lifestyles) in society because you've not experienced a great deal of oppression, you are effectively discounting the experiences of many others who probably have.

When you say something like

I struggle with finding what I want, but I don't blame social oppression for it. Sure its there and it acts as a hand of fate, but I can fight it. I'm not sure what good it even does me if I had something to blame it on.

you are implying that because you don't blame social oppression, others shouldn't either. It's also kind of implying that others shouldn't look to the conditions of privilege that are affecting their situation (either positively or negatively).

Now, that may not have been your intent in saying such a thing, but it's entirely reasonable for someone in a different position than you to see it that way.

When you compare the amount of oppression we face in the west compared to a place like Uganda (where gay people are being chased down and executed), of course we can say that we don't deal with that level of oppression. But I would really think carefully about making blanket statements about how easy or difficult things can be for other people based upon your own experiences. You can be sure that there are other people experiencing the same thing with far less privilege (for various reasons) so I find it best to not assume that their challenges are the same as mine.
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seinneann_ceoil
Dec. 31st, 2010 11:41 am (UTC)
Keep in mind that this discussion stemmed from a specific kind of sexual oppression.

What specific kind of sexual oppression is that? I was under the impression that this discussion stemmed from the fact that you were arguing what and how other people should identify based upon your own experience and not theirs.

A sexual oppression that I don't think should be allowed. It really comes down to the fact that there are certain things in my life that I just don't allow for.

If I do allow for them then people question me on why I'm not defending my boundaries. Or that I'm not demanding more.

Now they are saying these things without knowing the challenges I face.

I don't call it unfair when they question me. When they wonder why I'm not fighting.


This sounds like some personal experience you're talking about and I have no idea what it is. I responded to some blanket statements you made about oppression in society. I know nothing of any boundaries you're defending or what people are questioning of you.

I think its fair to question why a poly female allows her primary to dictate the gender of who she sleeps with when he's allowed to sleep with the opposite sex.

From my vantage point on my mountain of privilege it seems really odd to accept that.


I think it's entirely fair to question it as well. But claiming that someone isn't poly because they aren't conforming to your idea of what poly should be isn't the same as questioning that. ESPECIALLY when you yourself have said that you don't identify as poly.

Feeling that you can say how other people should identify when you don't even share that identity with them is a pretty entitled attitude to have.
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seinneann_ceoil
Dec. 31st, 2010 12:10 pm (UTC)
I just wanted Poly to mean something.

Apparently it doesn't mean anything. I think someone else a long time ago said that poly was what a person chose to be, and not what it was defined as. Or any definition we could give it.


Again, it's pretty entitled to think that because poly doesn't mean what you think it should mean, then it doesn't mean anything. Poly means a whole lot to those who live that way. There is a working definition of poly. It means that people can love more than one person in a romantic context. How that love looks for someone else may not be how that love looks for you, but the same variations of how love is expressed exist in all relationships- poly, mono platonic and everything else. Simply because that love is different than you expect it to be doesn't make it "Not Love" and consequently "Not Poly".

That way I don't get myself into trouble by expecting a poly person to actually be fair and equal about who their partners could sleep with. I guess I incorrectly assumed that they were a little more evolved than the average joe.

If you are directly in a relationship with a poly person and want to expect that YOUR relationship is fair and equal about who your partners can sleep with that's entirely reasonable. When you're looking at someone else's relationship from the outside and decide FOR THEM how fair and equal it is, there are problems.

Again, you can question whatever practices they have...I often do, especially when dealing with stuff like OPP. And I most certainly won't get involved with poly people who subscribe to certain practices like OPP and prescriptive relationship styles. If someone posts something on the internets about how fantastic OPP is, I sure as hell am going to question it and argue it. But I would never presume to say that they have no right to call themselves poly simply because I disagree with how they practice it.

Basically, how other people choose to live their lives is not going to be about what you want, so the more you get over that, the easier I suspect it would be to find what you want.